TELL US WHAT YOU THINK!
HERE IS THE LINK!
On 4/19/2016, footage of his disciplinary court was leaked to the public.
This is that transcript.
Here is a TL;DR version of the leak, but I recommend watching and reading all of it.
It reads fairly smoothly, but there may be several errors such as words I could not understand, grammatical/spelling errors, and attributing something to the wrong person. Please message me on reddit here, here, or email me and I will correct any errors.
A MormonThink version has been posted here.
For a table of contents, use the outline on the side.
Pre-Disciplinary Council 00:00-08:45
Outside the council: 00:00-02:30
Interpreter clarification: 02:30-04:23
Pre-Disciplinary Court: 04:23-06:24
K, I’m gonna slide your chair back.
Ok, let’s have a seat, please.
Disciplinary Council 08:45-44:09
Getting Started 08:45-10:44
The definition of apostasy, as defined in the handbook is: repeatedly act in clear, open, and deliberate opposition to the church or it’s leaders.
Jeremy, do you admit or deny your participation in this conduct.
President Ivin’s Evidence 10:44-19:08
You are doing this by deliberately and openly mocking and ridiculing God as a psychopathic … uh…
More specifically here are some of your quotes and teachings, page 69 of your online document, you state your disbelief and opposition to the scriptures.
“"As a believing Mormon, I tried to rationalize some of the craziness by saying, “Oh, this is in the crazy Old Testament when the Law of Moses was in force. Christ came and fulfilled the Law of Moses.”
"There are just way too many problems. We’re not just talking about one issue here. We’re talking about dozens of serious issues that undermine the very foundation of the LDS Church and its truth claims.”
(to Jeremy) Are we going too fast? Are we ok?
“I mean, I’m not a Christian.”
“I really don’t relate to the whole Christian stuff. What I did, I took their (meaning the Tanners’) research and their insight and put it in a way that works best for me. That explains my train of thought in terms of why I no longer believe in the church.”
(no source for this quote) “The church is fake and not real. No, it (the church) is not really good, it's fake. It’s not real.
You and any person are welcome to your own conclusions and views, but when you create your own organization and begin to solicit others to point to your point of view, seeking to oppose the foundation doctrines of the church, you cross a boundary wherein you support, participate, in direct opposition to the church.
It is my opinion that your have repeatedly acted in clear and open deliberate public opposition to the church and it’s leaders.
I want to share my testimony of the gospel of Jesus Christ. I know the gospel of Jesus Christ is true, that we’re lead by a modern-day prophet, that through direct revelation we’re guided and directed in these latter-days, that families can be eternal, and we can find joy and happiness living gospel principles that are taught to us by prophets, seers, and revelators, and I bear that testimony in the name of Jesus Christ, amen.
Jeremy Runnells’ Statement 19:09-44:09
The 2nd question I asked you is:
“If there are no errors or mistakes, why am I being punished for seeking and sharing the truth?”
And the 3rd question I asked you is:
“What question am I being punished for?”
I mean, you claimed that I’m in public - I’m in opposition to the church, The church’s essays are in public opposition to the church.
I refuse your observation that I’m in opposition to the church. It is interesting that the claims that he has made against me, there’s not one thing that you said, that is: it’s not true or I’m claiming falsehood, you’re just saying I’m in opposition. The reality is, is that the church’s essays are in opposition to the church. The Book of Abraham is in opposition to The Book of Abraham. Joseph Smith, the Kirtland and Nauvoo polygamy essay, it discusses very disturbing information about Joseph Smith: How he married 14 year old girls and other mens’ wives.
There are serious problems with church history, and for those of you who are unfamiliar with my background, I was approached by my grandfather’s friend who was a CES Director, and he asked me to lay out my concerns and questions. And I layed out my concerns and questions. And his response after reading it was that it was a very well written document, and that the brethren are concerned about the issues that the church is facing now in the Information Age. He said he would respond back to me. He never responded back to me. I have sought official answers to church problems, and I’ve sought the answers for 3 years, and they never came.
I’ve sought answers from you, President Ivins. We’ve had 2 meetings. The first meeting was on October 19th. We got to know each other, and you agreed to read the CES Letter, and you read the CES Letter and I appreciated that. Then the next meeting we had was November 2nd. In that meeting I asked you to correct me and show me where the errors in the CES Letter is so that I can publicly correct it. In the beginning of the meeting you refused to do that. I kept asking you to correct me where I was incorrect so that I can publicly correct it. I am only interested in accurate information.
I asked you to define apostasy for me, and you quote off The Church Handbook of Instructions. There’s a part in The Church Handbook of Instructions where it outlines the different definitions. You’ve read one of the definitions, you read “repeatedly act in clear, open, and deliberate opposition to the church or its leaders”, but you didn’t read the 2nd one. The second one is “Persist in teaching as church doctrine information that is not church doctrine after they have been corrected by their bishop or higher authority”, and when you read that last sentence, your face and your demeanor shifted when you realized you have to correct me, that we can’t go by your “dark feelings”.
So I asked you, “Correct me! Please correct me! Show me where the errors are!”, and you agreed to show me. Not in that meeting, but you’d show me later where the errors and mistakes are. So it went from the beginning of the meeting: “I’m not going to correct you in any way, I’m not getting into that” to where after you read this definition, you said “ok, I will show you the errors and mistakes”. Then you disappeared. I never heard back from you again until this year (2016).
For a year I waited for your answers, and instead of answers you had the audacity to call me, after you knew that I told your secretary that I had a family member in hospice. You still had the audacity to call me and say “come in anyway”. I asked you what this meeting was in regards to, hoping that maybe they would be answers that you told me you were going to get, and the corrections and errors you were going to get me. Instead of doing that, I asked you what the meeting was in regards to, you stated “this is in regards to your membership in the church”.
We never had a conversation between November 2nd when you agreed to help me and to give me the errors and mistakes between that time, and I find that disturbing. We had an agreement to meet on March 15th. I am extremely disturbed by how I was treated this year by you, President, extremely disturbed. We had an agreement on March 15th to meet, and in February, you came up to me and said “We’re going to hold a council on you on Valentine’s Day”. I said “Wait a minute, I never changed the agreement. March 15th. Why are you changing it? It was really weird, this real sense of urgency that you had all of a sudden. You disappear for a year, then all of a sudden you have this sense of urgency on the phone call when I said “March 15th”, you said “I can’t wait that long!” Is Salt Lake involved in this? K you’re not going to answer that?
So you tried to hold a Valentine’s Day disciplinary council on me, without talking to me, without giving me any errors, no mistakes to correct. I just find that real disturbing.
I also have a problem with how you conducted it. You claimed that you had additional information to warrant the disciplinary council on Valentine’s Day. That just made it urgent. The letter that you sent a few days later said “conduct unbecoming a member”. So it appears that you and the church were attempting a character assassination on me.
So I had a press conference to discuss this unchrist-like behavior, and this injustice that was being done against me. And lo and behold, the very next day, 5 o’clock in the morning, you emailed me saying that the disciplinary council was canceled for Valentine’s Day. So you scheduled it for March 20th, and our March 15th meeting was still on.
So February 28th you emailed me again, and you asked if I was still going to meet on March 15th. I said “Nothing’s changed, I’ll still meet with you. By the way, I’m going to bring my ASL interpreter to ensure I understand the meeting”, and you had a problem with the interpreter, you did not want an interpreter present. So you canceled the March 15th meeting, and you also canceled the March 20th meeting, and you took our conversation into writing, and I was grateful for that, so I wanted to start a conversation with you, but you placed restrictions on it.
For some reason you wanted to take it into the dark into non-transparency. On our November 2nd meeting when you offered to help me with answers, there were no conditions placed on it. But all of a sudden there’s all these conditions, that we have to talk in the dark and all that. I was trying to understand why you were placing these conditions. What was your reasoning for it?
Because I believe in the Mormon Marketplace of Information. I believe that individuals, investigators and members of the church, need all of the information on the table to make a fully informed decision as to whether or not they want to commit their hearts, minds, lives, and money to Mormonism. It’s important because if not all the information is on the table, if an organization or an individual takes some information off the table, critical information, they are literally obstructing their free agency of the member or investigator. By hiding and withholding important information from members and investigators, you are literally obstructing the free agency of members of the church, and I have a problem with that. I believe in the Mormon Marketplace of Information.
I don’t understand what I’ve done wrong. All I’m doing is - I went through official channels to seek answers to my doubts. This was a after a year of frustration with dealing with unofficial Mormon apologists. FairMormon and all these guys who are no more legitimate or official than the crazy high priest guy that everybody rolls their eyes to in Sunday school. I was tired of them. I wanted official answers from the church, so I went through official channels to get them, the CES Director. I went through you to get answers, and the only thing I get in return is threats of excommunication. No answers. Not a single question answered the last 3 years.
Let me look at my notes real quick.
The real problem here is not whether I’m writing falsehoods or lies, I’ve never been accused of that, it’s that I’m public about this information. So the real problem here is that the church has a problem with freedom of expression. The church claims to believe in free agency, but it doesn’t. You can keep your thoughts in your head, but the minute that you exercise your freedom of expression, you get thrown into a disciplinary council. So the church doesn’t believe in free agency.
“If we have the truth, no harm can come from investigation. If we have not the truth, it ought to be harmed.” - President J. Reuben Clark
So I’m going to respond to a quick few accusations.
The essay says we disavow that black skin is a sign of divine disfavor or curse, yet that contradicts The Book of Mormon. In 2nd Nephi 5: 21:
Joseph Smith’s actions and conduct of marrying other mens’ wives and 14 year old girls behind Emma’s back is discrediting Joseph Smith. It’s not me who’s discrediting him, its facts! These are not “Anti-Mormon Lies”! It’s amazing to me that what was yesterday’s “Anti-Mormon Lies” are now today’s church essays!
What am I doing here, President?! What am I doing here?! What error or mistake have I made? Please correct me!
Again, the church’s essays do that just fine. It creates a new narrative that discredits the story that was really told, that discredits the claims of Joseph Smith, I just mentioned several of them. THe Book of Abraham, blacks and the priesthood, The First Vision Accounts essay. Joseph Smith wrote several different essays (accounts) that contradict each other. They evolve. Its… [sigh]
The Book of Mormon Translation: You were taught that Joseph Smith used Gold Plates to translate The Book of Mormon. The Book of Mormon that we have today, and the essay verifies it, was not translated with Gold Plates. It was used with a rock in a hat. The same rock in a hat that Joseph Smith used to do treasure hunting. Yet, we’re still displaying artwork with Joseph Smith’s fingers over the Gold Plates. That’s not honest.
So, I was trying to resolve these doubts and concerns. I was seeing this information and I was trying to resolve it by writing the letter to the CES director. It was not my intention to destroy the church or to take people out of the church, it still is not my intention. If people are happy in the church, awesome! Fantastic! My intention is to get the official answers I was promised by the CES director 3 years ago, and I still haven’t received any.
So, because you guys are not answering my questions, and you guys have not answered my questions the last 3 years, it is very clear to me that the church does not have answers to it’s truth crisis. The church does not like individuals asking questions about it’s truth claims.
So, this is a kangaroo court. I’m done with this court. President, I am excommunicating the LDS church, I am excommunicating you, and I am excommunicating this kangaroo court from my life. Here is my resignation letter.